Great things are achieved through persistence. Got with Holley and the pointed me down the RFI rabbit hole. Dug down, cleaned up a bad ground, problem solved. The bottom line was that the engine wanted more fuel at idle. All rights reserved. With the advent of EFI systems like the Sniper EFI System more and more of the details formerly left to the installer are being completed at the factory to provide a "plug and play" experience. Explained: Holley EFI Sensors and What They Do To underscore this point, VP Racing Fuels Q16 sports a stoichiometric ratio of 13.3:1. Do the do's, don't do the don'ts--it is that simple. Most have an "LED Indicator" shown next to each as well. That's generally a good thing. Tech Resources. Just knowing that I'm helping folks is very rewarding! (National Corvette Museum for those who are wondering).Would I recommend Chris and EFISYSTEMPRO? Once potential causes have been ruled out, more targeted tests can be performed using a digital multimeter or a handheld tuner. Minor but has only just started after 3 weeks . On the other hand, if the mixture is too lean, it means there's not enough fuel. Since they're having me send back the old WBO2 sensor before they ship a replacement $99.95, vs the $71.00 for the 17025, it's worth the peace of mind I guess. This is also why self-learning throttle body EFI systems tend to struggle when used on engines with lower than 10 inches of manifold vacuum. In this first picture you see a quick blip of the throttle (light green trace) and the resulting increase in RPM. But right away its important to mention that nearly all pump gasoline sold in this country is laced with 10-percent ethanol. Despite the cams mild overlap, the on-board wide-band sensor produced readings of between 16:1 and 17:1 AFR on our wideband O2sensor. 218 / 224 at 0.050 with 113 degree LSA and 109 degree intake centerline The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. I did the Holley distributor as well. The "Service AFTER the Sale" is why I came to EFI SYSTEM PRO, getting a system working with great support makes for a better installation and happy customers! VPs Q16 racing gasoline is a highly oxygenated example of a fuel that is a long way from a stoichiometric AFR of 14.7. Jeff Smith, a 35-year veteran of automotive journalism, comes to Power Automedia after serving as the senior technical editor at Car Craft magazine. Find a lower price anywhere and we'll beat it by 5%! There are a few things you can check to see if it's the ignition system. All times are GMT-6. My only issue as present is some misfiring popping through the throttle body. *Free Shipping & Handling only offered to the contiguous US on orders over $100, excludes clearance parts and oversized packages. By following these simple tips, you can help ensure that your system will continue to run smoothly for years to come. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I might be on my forth WBO2 sensor. - Holley Performance Products Forums And just as it stalls you look down and see a TPS reading of -22%, that's a pretty good clue. You will ether need to have it rebuilt or replaced. The HyperSpark unit you picked up is going to be a world better. "Hey, you don't happen to have an electric fan coming on at about 185 degrees, do you?" The best advice I could give is don't be in denial. Holley efi behavior with bad o2 sensor, safety feature While it was gone out I ordered the hyperspark ignition box from u and will be starting the set up and tuning shortly. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Wideband Realities: The Truth About Oxygen Sensors - EngineLabs He directed me to a few articles and I'm just about done with the set-up after getting what was most likely RF Interference issues sorted out. At the end of my roper here so any help is appreciated. Thanks Danny. You're proof that it can be done. I hope they have them dialed in better for future users? Invariably, this is the user that, after weeks of frustration, replaces the wires on out of sheer frustration and finds that it solves the problem. Problem is not the alternator. When you install them, it's a good idea to put a bit of dielectric grease on the inside of the boot on both ends of the plug wire as well. check out the. This problem with high overlap camshafts and O2sensors isnt limited to just EFI engines. You should then recheck the timing to make sure it is working properly. If they are not completely limber inside (and they may not be if ignition energy has been burning them) then they need to be replaced. The immediate result is shown in the trace below. All times are GMT-6. AFR was 32-34. Holley EFI 554-155 Holley EFI Oxygen Sensor Int. I've used this method for diagnosing misfires ever since! If there is any corrosion on the ground or power wire terminals, clean them with a wire brush and apply a coating of dielectric grease. Alternatively, you can cut a section out of the middle, strip/solder/heat-shrink the pair down to a reasonable length. In my experience the far majority of Sniper EFI customers never have a problem with radio frequency / electro-magnetic interference (RFI/EMI). A forum community dedicated to 1st generation Chevy Camaros owners and enthusiasts. I have had others with similar "alternator-related" problems that never got it solved, even after changing the alternator multiple times and cleaning every connection. When the engine is started again, the whole process repeats. Fuel starvation occurs when the float level in the carburetor is set too low, causing the fuel to run dry and the engine to stall. The Internet know-it-alls will tell you to open the gap up to get more power. Thanks Chris for the feed back regarding my rough running sniper/timing issue even though I bought my sniper through Holley. http://forums.holley.com/showthread.ension-Harness, https://www.holley.com/support/resouFuel_Injection, If this is your first visit, be sure to With alternator unhooked there is no issue. We promise not to use your email address for anything but exclusive updates from the Power Automedia Network. Hi Chris, I recently had a sniper system installed on my 55 nomad with gm zz4 350. - Replaced all plugs, Ohm tested all plug wires. Everyone else was backordered several months. Ultimate Fathers Day Gift Guide: Garage Gear, The Amazing Aero Engine That Never Flew: The V12 Rolls Royce, Why Boostline Connecting Rods Need To Be Part Of Your Next, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month Summit Racing Pro Ring, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing Lb-In Torque, Can A Cold Air Intake Really Help Your Trucks, Ask The Expert: We Want Your Questions For Canton Racing, The Answers: DeatschWerks Responses To Your Fuel System, SEMA 2022: GEARWRENCH Leveled Up With Distinct Quality Hand, Why You Should NOT Emissions Delete Your Diesel, HOLY SHIP! Full product line and accessories at excellent pricing. Open 41 BTDC Exh. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. AFR was 32-34. For this example, well look at overlap on two Comp small-block Chevy hydraulic roller cams. I've read so many threads about installing the new sensor, that I'm totally confused. Holley puts a resistor in the sensor harness under the shrink wrap . It just doesn't happen to conentrate enough RFI to create the instant ECU-stopping effects you see until the air cleaner is in place. The point is that not all gasoline has a stoich of 14.7:1. I'd like to echo Zachary P's comment above! Weve touched on several areas on how to keep track of not only what your O2sensor is telling you but how to interpret those numbers so you dont get lost or confused. Note also that there is a "Filtering" selection that can be toggled between "Low" and "High". What works on one setup can cause problems on another. Here is where the denial starts. Admittedly, the HC difference was minor, but the point is that when we richened the idle AFR, idle vacuum also increased about 0.5 InHg. Assuming your ohm meter zeros when you touch the leads together, if it is even one ohm that is more than it should be. I keep a spare in my trunk, but I paid a lot more than $35. Ignition There are a few things you can check to see if it's the ignition system. As always, the identification and elimination of the source of the RFI is where one's attention must lie--not doing things like shielding ECUs and grounding air cleaner bases and those sorts of things.I believe the solution lies in creating wiring "zones". My car was starving for fuel and breaking up bad. It appears that I've lost my WBO2 sensor. But the failure tends to be deterministic, not random. Will running the initial startup Wizard switch the system to closed loop? I have my fingers crossed mine doesn't have to go back, if it takes a week to get a WBO2 sensors from them, I bet a whole unit takes at least two weeks for a round trip & diagnosis. First, one must address why ignition charge is preferring to run down the side of the spark plug rather than arcing across the gap. Doubt it? This can be caused by a problem with the spark plugs, wires, or coil. The Ordering process was so easy and non-painful. Well, it's on it way back to Holley. But if you're not familiar with these systems, you may not know that they can have some quirks. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Good luck! Went to back the car out of the shop one day and it would not idle for anything. After about 15-30 restarts, the engine is now running excessively rich and yet the O2sensor still detects free oxygen present in the exhaust. Third, check the fuel filter. Note: Do not attenpt to shorten (or lengthen, for that matter) an O2 sensor's pigtail. Normally this means you have too much gap. It was installed in a short bung so that made sense. I have a Sniper EFI unit here that we installed for a customer and it has come back for WBO2 sensor issues. I sincerely doubt that. Since nearly all wideband oxygen sensors uses 14.7:1 as the baseline from which to calculate the actual air-fuel ratio, right from the beginning the O2sensors display is off by roughly half a ratio. When I start the car and try to rev the engine the TPS goes to 35% but no further. Capability Range: Advanced This is where a preconceived notion that the engine should run at 13.8:1 would not necessarily be what was best for the engine. Some wires simply won't work in an EFI-controlled vehicle. Don't get crazy--if you set this too high then you will have troubles cranking the engine. What we know is that the indicated 12.4:1 is too rich. The Wizard is what uploads the base calibration. And if you think about it, it makes sense. This is the seventh unit I've installed and know there have been some bad sensors right off the bat with these. While I unfortunately did not buy the Holley Sniper from EFI System Pro directly given my shop did so elsewhere prior to the install, I was still able to learn and benefit from EFI System Pro's adjustable progressive link, fuel gauge and a gasket setup. Hope this helped someone in the future Recently I received a data log from a customer who said that his car starting misbehaving when it got warm. You've got two options: re-terminate or cut-and-splice. I like the idea of the washer shaving, thanks for that. But if you're fighting RFI then it's time to step up and do this. The coil is similarly mounted to put the coil wire in this zone. Assuming we added 2 jet sizes, the AFR changed to 12.4:1, and the power dropped 6 hp, we know weve increased fuel and the engine responded by losing power. The WBO2 sensor is located on a section of pipe after the header that does a 45 turn up. The sensor reads normal with key on engine off (goes 0-100% smooth). Terminator X Max 700R4 LS2 L92 heads and LS3 525hp cam and Jim Inglese 8 stack fuel injection. Many thanks in advance for any assistance. Just remember to use that wideband gauge as a comparator. After going round and round I found that the RPM readout on the handheld display goes crazy reading anywhere from 200-7000 RPM while the engine is just trying to idle. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. Come join the discussion about performance, builds, restoration, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, reviews, and more! The car generally ran well without the air cleaner but the moment the air cleaner was lowered to the top of the throttle body, BAM, it shut off like you'd hit the key. I was just told by Holley not to use the Bosch 17025 oxygen sensor as it may damage the ECU, since it's not calibrated for the Holley Sniper EFI. Troubleshooting Holley Sniper that hesitates on acceleration Cold starts good, hot starts good and runs good in open loop. multi-port EFI systems I should note that I am running a 6.0 truck motor with the high driver side alternator, which happens to be very close to the TPS and IAC on the throttle body. classic car or truck . 2023 Power Automedia. 14.7 target AFR jumps to 16.4+. late-model V8 engine swaps. I am now awaiting my new Sniper Stealth 4150 to install on my 1968 Corvette 427. As much as I hate to admit it I myself was in RF signal denial. Holley Sniper EFI offers the following instructions for fixing backfires: If all of these measures fail to fix the problem, Holley recommends taking the vehicle to a qualified technician. You should keep an eye on all the fluid levels and change the oil and filters at least once a year (or more often if you drive a lot). I better heed their warning, since I have had no less than five returns on defective Holley parts so far, and I don't want to jeopardize the warranty. Even new wires occasionally have defects, and all it takes is one crack in the insulation for a wire to start arcing to the nearest grounded chunk of metal. Part# 558-491. As an example, we have some experience with a carbureted 4.8L LS engine in a street Chevelle. (Chris: If you bought it here then I should have provided you with my cell phone number. Emissions. The most typical culprits are the spark plug and coil wires. It does not work with the Sniper EFI oxygen sensor. RFI still present when new alternator is hooked up. WBO2 Sensor 17025 Bosch 554-155 Holley - EFISystemPro.com If the timing problems persist, it may be necessary to consult a Holley Sniper EFI specialist. So, failing that, replacing the coil is a good way to test this theory. Warranty Information. Holley Sniper EFI is a popular choice for carbureted engines, but it's not without its issues. This is a display of EMSs 5-gas analyzer on that big-block El Camino. Troubleshooting Holley Sniper that hesitates on acceleration Holley was able to fix my Sniper EFI unit after the o2 sensor circuit went bad and they also replaced the ECU. Would having a hole drilled in my Cap for phasing be bad for emi/rfi ? In addition, if you do need to replace your Holley Sniper EFI system, a certified mechanic will be able to install the new system correctly, ensuring that it functions properly. This car runs on methanol, and at the track the last couple outtings the car was misbehaving and reading really rich. Take the alternator belt off and all is good. This only occurred at idle. This despite having a quality brand of plug and coil wires that were well-routed. Personally, I have had the best experience with Magnecor wires. MAIN POWER AND GROUND need to go to the battery. Oxygen Sensor? Fails way too early. - Holley Performance Products Forums Fairly new Sniper EFI install around 200 miles. Clean or replace the Mass Air Flow sensor. But I wanted to know if grounding the cleaner might solve the problem? VP rates this fuel with a stoichiometric ratio of 13.3:1 and suggests increasing carburetor jetting by 4- to 6-percent to compensate for the added aromatics. Move on. Unfortunately, it is not currently possible to change the MSV from the handheld. Just received the WBO2 sensor I had to pay for out of pocket, the warranty one is still on the way. If you're thinking of relocating the WBO2 sensor, plenty of EFI users have an exhaust shop/performance garage install the WBO2 sensor bung. Once an engine reaches a certain engine speed 2,500 rpm as an example the issue of overlap isnt as critical because theres less time for this to occur. The engine has run about one or two minute since the AFR flashed red. This is where I will get all of my EFI equipment from now on.The MSV and filtering settings make a HUGE difference. Any ideas? RF Interference is an unavoidable enemy to successful EFI operation so it must be carefully and thoughtfully managed. Listen to what the technicians tell you. Whever someone has an RFI problem they always start by explaining the effort they have made to separate their wires from each other. The next step is to start over by re-booting the system, establish a decent running AFR where the engine runs cleanly at idle (regardless of what the O2sensor reads) and then disable the learning function at idle so further corrections do not continually add fuel to the system. Read this. It never hurts to try but we've seen very limited success from grounding the air cleaner base plate. They didn't see anything but suspected a bad ECU, so I sent in the whole thing in and they rebuilt it for free (kudos Holley). I don't know anything specific to suggest other than what you read above. I had a little trouble getting a signal to my MSD box to fire the coil during cranking. Compared to Cam A, thats an overlap increase of 42 degrees! To diagnose a problem, start by ruling out the simplest causes first. See what that does for you. Another symptom is the engine is backfiring or stalling. When it comes to troubleshooting a Holley Sniper EFI system, there are four main symptom areas to watch for: fuel delivery, ignition, air/fuel mixture, and timing. They key is to be persistent and solve the problem, preferably by identifying and removing the source of RFI. When we say, "They just don't make them like they used to", we generally mean something is not as good as it used to be. It is possible for the ECU to have an internal failure that can kill O2 sensors. Because O2sensors use free oxygen as their only measurement for calculating AFR, they can be subject to significant error when working at idle on engines equipped with long duration camshafts and/or cams with excessive overlap.
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